We and God

What I cannot accept is when a council, of humans, begins to espouse doctrine that is not clearly laid out in the Bible. You have rejected the doctrine of Immaculate Conception for that reason. I reject the doctrine of Real Presence for the same reason.

I don't reject the Immaculate Conception because it's not in Scripture. The perpetual Virginity of Mary is not in Scripture and I believe that wholeheartedly. I reject it because the ancient Church did not believe it. It is an unnecessary innovation which is logically necessary according to the Augustinian doctrine of Original Sin on which the Western Church is hung up.

Your response, apparently, is the church represented by what you have chosen to believe. All you have done is widen the circle of that which influences what you believe from the Bible to the Bible and the councils that you have chosen to accept.

No, not at all. First, let me say that I am arguing as if I were Orthodox. I'm not. I always look to them first for my answers, but no Orthodox priest I know would let me commune at Mass. My personal convictions will wait until later. As for widening the circle, nope. I have placed Scripture in a context out of which it was never meant to be taken. It was done in response to the abuses of the Western, Roman Catholic Church, but never in the East. Scripture has always been part of that Tradition which was identified and upheld by the Church. It is no higher, nor lower, than the Creeds, or the councils, or the dogma of the Theotokos (Mary, Mother of God or God-bearer), etc. The Church recognized that without inspired authors, there is no inspired Scripture, and the inspired authors gave inspired interpretation which was passed down from Apostles to their heirs, the Bishops.



It's not "me and God" but "us and God."

There is no one denomination that represents the one true church any more.

Nope. And that's why even modern Orthodox look to the decisions of the undivided Church and are very Entlike in even considering changes. I consider no one as authoritative as the unified Church once was. Thus, when I look back for answers, I look WAY back! I don't care how logical, based on Scripture, someone's argument is. If it doesn't mesh with the way the ancients interpreted it, it is suspect.



By the way, the doctrine of the Real Presence is in Scripture. Jesus said, "This IS my Body and my Blood." He didn't say, "This REPRESENTS my Body and my Blood." Catholics and Orthodox are very literal that way. :-)