Elevated Traditions and Universal Churches

I think it's the same with the Bible. Even if it is infallible, inerrant, and a couple of other words which start with "in" in the original autograph, it doesn't matter. We don't know the Bible ding an sich." We know it as we percieve it.



Well, I perceive that you spelled "perceive" incorrectly. In all seriousness, that's an interesting point.



The Church, by the way, did not have the New Testament in the beginning, yet was able to make definitive statements about the faith. This was based on the authority of the apostles. The Church continued to make definitive statements and these, collectively (including, but not limited to, Scripture) are the Tradition of the Church. They are things that the successors of the apostles, the Bishops, worked out together in councils, identifying that which was True by the power of the Holy Spirit and discarding that which was false.



Is there a solution? Not really. You say you trust in the Bible, but you don't. You're really trusting in yourself as the interpreter of the Bible. All Protestants are. I think that's incredibly dangerous!



The problem here is that it seems like you are elevating the traditions of men to an equal status with Scripture. My point is that all the councils and discussions of wise men over all the years of church history are just that, discussions of men...men's interpretations of Scripture.



Here's the Catch 22...I might not have a problem submitting myself to the authority of the church prior to the Middle Ages, but the Catholic Church went off the deep end after that. It seems that we have an all or nothing proposition here. Either you accept the authority of a universal church to interpret Scripture for you, or you make your own decisions guided by the Holy Spirit.



And lest we forget, there wasn't a universal church when the Orthodox and Catholic churches divided. So, which church's interpretation do we follow? When we choose, are we not then relying on our own understanding and interpretation of Scripture in order to make the decision. There is no denomination that doesn't have some statement of beliefs; a creed, if you will. The only difference between us now and Christians of 500 AD is that instead of 2 choices, we have a whole buffet. So when you say that all Protestants are trusting in their own interpretation of Scripture, it would be more accurate to say that all Christians across the board are doing that.



I trust in the Church. I have faith in what Jesus said, that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. They were preaching the Gospel and teaching the Christian life long before anything was written down.



I do not trust in the church because the church is made up of humans. I don't even trust myself, which is why I am willing to constantly evaluate my non-essential beliefs in the light of new evidence. I trust in Christ. The Scripture you quoted doesn't mean that Satan will not defeat the church. It means that the church will always defeat Satan.